HO Twin Mills : MitchN

[Crystalcreek8]

This thread was started in November, 2016

MitchN
November 2016 in HO Scale Builds
I wanted absorb the latest Sierra West techniques in the O’Neills build before I started the no frills Twin Mills Sawmill build. I purchased the kit and the wood a year ago and I am now ready to start cutting and organizing the wood needed to build this complex. One of the most important elements of the model is the staining of the wood. Previous builds have utilized staining in a paint solution for 24 hours, wiping with homemade stains made with diluted paints and India ink stains. Now the preferred method is using pastel and alcohol. My question to the readers of this forum, especially those who have built this kit before is how should I proceed? There is a tremendous volume of wood to distress and finish. It seems like the easiest way to finish the wood would be with an India ink stain, because its quick, initially and then enhance them with pastel and alcohol, as needed, for stronger effects. Bill had answered this question once before for me and recommended the pastel and alcohol method. Before I start is that the consensus?

Comments

nextceo
November 2016
Maybe I’m old school but I would follow the directions and stain the wood the old fashion way. Soaking the wood in the stain gives you effects that arent possible with chalks. If you’re going to build the most famous Sierrawest Kit, why would you cut corners?

Just my thoughts…

November 2016
nextceo said:
Maybe I’m old school but I would follow the directions and stain the wood the old fashion way. Soaking the wood in the stain gives you effects that arent possible with chalks. If you’re going to build the most famous Sierrawest Kit, why would you cut corners?

Just my thoughts…

I agree 100%. Why change a proven way to do this large kit.

Jerry

KKarns
November 2016
Mitch, great to hear you’re going to be working up Twin Mills. Such a signature SWSM kit and by far the largest and most detailed HO/HOn3 sawmill kit ever manufactured. If I were working up this beast, which I will some day, I would do a bit of experimenting. I’d try the bulk staining on some of the wood on the first structure and see if you like it. Try some chalk on some other wood. You’ll get a good feel for what you like once you get into it. Remember both methods are very foregiving. Really look forward to this one!..ken

KCSTrains
November 2016
I have this bad boy of a kit as well. I like Ken’s suggestion - try both and see what you like. The variety between the buildings would be great. Phil

Wes
November 2016
Mitch do what works for you. Just post pictures man. We all love this kit.

Id love to get my hands on it 1 day. At the moment your elections are playing havoc with our currency and the exchange rate makes it nothing more than a pipe dream for now. But ill be following along for sure.

Mike Engler
November 2016
I built my Twin Mills almost ten years ago, and even though several new staining methods have appeared I would still use the original soak staining method Brett described in the manual. I remember it being alcohol and India ink, with a couple of Poly Scale colors- two browns and Oily Black, in very small amounts. I recall they soaked for hours, and you varied the intensity of the stain by removing some of the pieces earlier than others.

I can’t even imagine staining that much stripwood using the alcohol- pastel chalk method. I remember tweaking the formula somewhat as I prefer my weathered untreated lumber to be more gray and less brown. Also, I have used several peeling paint methods over the years, and the first and maybe still the beast of all is the one Brett recommends in Twin Mills for the Old Mill.

Looking forward to seeing your build- it is bringing back a lot of great memories.

MitchN
November 2016
I have been experimenting with 91% alcohol and various India inks. Mike Engler provided me information on his sawmill build and after his experimenting he was satisfied with the ink results. Anyone looking at the Sierra West gallery can find his award winning sawmill on the last page of the gallery along with some of his other wonderful Sierra West builds.

I added one teaspoon each of Higgens waterproof black, PH Martins Sepia and PH Martins Van Dyke Brown to 15 ounces of alcohol. Here are the results.

For comparison sake, the natural wood in the center is just that. The large stick on the right is a weathered grey color. The wood on the left was dunked in the ink stain for a few minutes then wiped off. When dry it was weathered with a steel brush. The wood on the right of the natural wood was dunked in the same stain but when the wood was pulled out of the stain it was just set down on a newspaper and left to dry without wiping. It was also weathered with a wire brush.

I think I have all the ingredients for a soak experiment which I may do tomorrow.

CarlLaskey
November 2016
Mitch
I went by the instructions and my personal opinion is that is the way to go.
Carl

MitchN
November 2016
Understand that Carl and I do not disagree. But…The instructions call for Floquil and Polly S paints which are no longer available. I still have half a bottle of Polly S roof brown and the other colors but none of the oily black. I am going to substitute steam power black and mix up a batch and see what it looks like for a soak.
The stain colors call for a mix of Floquil roof brown, Floquil grime and diosol. I just happen to have a bottle each of brown and grime ( the brown is unopened and cost $2.39!) but no diosol. I would not think the two bottles would stretch far enough for all the wood that needs to be finished. So I must get creative and experiment.

Mitch

CarlLaskey
November 2016
I will look and see what I have and send them to you if you like.
Carl

MitchN
November 2016
Thank you, Carl. That is very thoughtful of you. I literally just put some strips in my soak mixture. 8:45 PM. I would like to see how the strips look tomorrow or the next day after they dry. Soaking, ink staining and diosol staining are new to me so I am really feeling my way here. Does anyone think using steam power black instead of oily black would make much difference?

Mitch

MikeM
November 2016
Model Railroad Hobbyist has a guide to using acrylic paints that includes a color chart including, among other things, equivalents to oily black and roof brown.

KKarns
November 2016
Hey Mitch, I believe how you work the wood after the staining is what makes the build. Coloring is such a variable and would encourage the use of a technique you are comfortable with and can reproduce on a large lot of strip wood such as that needed for a kit like Twin Mills. The natural variation you’ll get is a plus. Less stress more having fun building this impressive kit…

MitchN
November 2016
I completed my soaking experiment to see how the color would turn out using the original instructions. Here are the results compared to the India ink and alcohol method.

The alcohol strips are on the left and the soak parts on the right. The strips have received the wire brush treatment. A natural strip is between for comparison. I am satisfied with the alcohol results which is much easier to execute.

I will quit dithering and get to work.

Mitch

MitchN
December 2016
A bit of progress here.

I think this is a shot of the 2 X 10 strips flashing off the alcohol after they are stained. There are 17 groups of wood that need to be finished and these strips are the contents of one bag.

The start of the first wall.

SteveCuster
December 2016
Looks great Mitch. Looks like a great collection of structures in the background, do you have pictures of your layout in a thread anywhere?

-Steve

Wes
December 2016
Small Forrest needed for all that lumber Mitch. Good start buddy.

KCSTrains
December 2016
Mitch, I’m following closely since I need to take this one on as well. Good luck!!

Bill
December 2016 edited December 2016
You’re off and running, Mitch!
If I could offer one tip at this stage…be careful of your board spacing. It’s a little tough to tell, but in the last picture it looks like there are gaps in between all the boards. If you decide to add lights to the structure, it’ll look funny if there’s a gap next to each board. (A lesson I learned the hard way on a different model!)

It’s okay to butt a board right up next to its neighbor–especially if the 2 are of distinct colors. On a model, too many gaps will establish an unnatural pattern. When interior lighting is added, the gaps will become more obvious and odd looking. It’ll look sort of like a corn crib (farm sheds built to let air in so corn could dry):

I’m not intending to be overly critical, just wanted to bring it to your attention. Anyone who takes on The Twin Mills ends up with a jewel in their modeling crown, so we’re all rooting for you! Keep yup the good work!

MitchN
December 2016
Thank you Steve, Phil, Wes and Ed for your comments. All constructive criticism is welcome.
I took Bill’s comment about board spacing to heart and replaced many of the 2 X 10 boards with 2 X 12 boards. How does he just whip up those pictures to make a good point?
The windows have been installed in the right wall, the mating left wall is complete and it’s on to the trusses.
Mitch

KCSTrains
December 2016
Bill’s suggestion is so important. When I was building my Woodcutter’s Shack I took gaps in the siding to a new level. It definitely looked like the picture above. I tried to explain that the woodcutter needed extra air-conditioning in the deep south. Phil

MitchN

December 2016
I have not purchased the rail I need to complete the sawmill. Its about time I got around to it. The directions say I need 144 inches of code 55 rail and 36 inches of code 70 rail. Do any of the forum members have rail that I could purchase from them? I hate to buy 100 feet from Micro Engineering if I do not have to.

Mitch

admin
December 2016
Rail used to be available from internet hobby stores - is this not the case anymore?

MitchN
December 2016
I looked at Google shopping and the only thing I saw were $52.00 for 99 feet of Code 55.

MitchN
December 2016
Ed,
I emailed Discount Trains. We will see what the response is. Thanks for the tip.
Mitch

MitchN
December 2016
Ed, I think your first suggestion helped with my problem. I will know more tomorrow. Thanks again.
Here are a few update pictures. I have the previously built wall repaired with 2 X 12 boards.

Here is the new mill floor or at least part of it.

KCSTrains
December 2016
The color variations are really nice and your weathering is spot on - weathered, but not rotten. Phil

SteveCuster
December 2016
Looks great Mitch. The wood texture and color is perfect.

MitchN
December 2016 50.51.199.79
I was wondering what other modelers thought of the roughed up end boards on the platform. I have the impression it is not normally done but I like the way it looks in person.

Mitch

CarlLaskey
December 2016
Mitch
I think that a few would look good not all of them but we all do what we like so have fun.
Carl

KCSTrains
December 2016
Mitch, I like it and I don’t think it’s over done. Phil

KKarns
December 2016
Great progress Mitch, this is going to be a really great build to watch come together. Beautiful wall, color tones are wonderful. Deck looks great.

MitchN
January 2017
Some progress on the sawmill. The right wall of the old mill and a couple of additional platforms.

KKarns
January 2017
Great progress Mitch. Your board detailing is terrific and particularly the board ends…should have you on my clinic as a guest speaker!

Bill
January 2017
Looks like you got a nice peel effect with the white paint. It contrasts well with the weathered boards at the bottom. As far as the edges, I think roughing them up as you did is perfectly acceptable. Workers would be dropping things, bumping into them and dragging lumber across them so they’d probably be less than fresh cut looking.

KCSTrains
January 2017
Mitch, it’s looking good. Phil

MitchN
January 2017
Gentlemen,
Thank you for the encouragement. More walls to come, eventually.
Mitch

Wes
January 2017
Love the updates Mitch. The peeling paint looks terrific.

Mike Engler
January 2017
Mitch, I really like your staining and weathering- first-rate modeling. I am enjoying your thread.

Geezerbill
January 2017
Very nice Mitch! enjoying your build.

Geezerbill

MitchN
January 2017 edited January 2017
Another small contribution to the sawmill. This is the front wall.

It’s no fun cutting the window glass out the old fashioned way. Spoiled by the newer kits but I’ll survive. I thought about trying to paint in tape holding the sun blocks in the windows. I discovered masking tape was invented in 1925 but in HO scale who would notice?

CarlLaskey
January 2017
Nice work Mitch ,Yes the windows are a pain in the glass looking forward to more up dates.
Carl

MitchN
January 2017
Well done Carl!

admin
January 2017
Excellent work Mitch on one of my classics! Yeah, gotta agree. Having laser cut window glazing sure makes assembling the laser cut windows a lot easier. Well, if I didn’t improve my kits and introduce new ideas and techniques over the years they would become stale and boring!

KKarns
January 2017
Great progress Mitch and working windows is fun but tedious. Worth the effort though.

MitchN
January 2017
Finished the walls on the old mill and I am working on the boiler house now. Probably have pictures when I can slide the assemblies together.

Thank you Wes, Mike, Bill, Carl, Ken, Ed and admin for your encouragement.

Looking a long way ahead, I have never worked with envirotex lite before and I was wondering if it had any fumes? The boxes of resin castings have an odor when I open them and I have to let them “gas off” in an open box in the garage before I can stand to use them. Forget about cutting them. So if I am filling my basement with fumes from the envirotex that would not be a good situation for me. If I need to go to plexiglass water like I did with the shipyard now is the time I need to decide. Then there is using acid to weather the corrugated roofing. I am sure that must be fumey but at least I could try to do that outside.

Mitch

CarlLaskey
January 2017
Mitch
When I used it on my mill there is no odor, I made about six or eight pours a 1/8 in thick and tinted is as I went along that way you can change the color if you like as you go along also I did not paint the bottom and epoxied the logs in place at the same level hope that this helps a word of caution be sure to have a timer on hand that is a very important part of the pour.
Carl

Bill
January 2017 edited January 2017
I agree with Carl in that I don’t recall any odor with Envirotex. I hope you seriously consider using the 2-part epoxy rather than plexiglass. Envirotex gives you a depth and realism that, in my opinion, is tough to beat. The pond is a major focal point on this model. Not everybody who vists your layout (or sees your diorama) will know exactly what a sawmill of that era looks like. However, every man, woman and child who sees your work knows how water is supposed to look! (They’re ALL rivet counters in that regard!!)

Take your time, follow the manual, and let your friends here on the forum help you through the process of an Envirotex pour. Trust me…it’ll be worth it!

As far as etching the roof panels, you for sure don’t want to do that inside. Personally, I think I’ve used acid for the last time on my models. I hate the stuff! If you’d like to check out an easier, more controlled method…take a look at my Deer Creek Mine construction thread. It’s all the way down at the bottom:

KCSTrains
January 2017
Mitch, Bill is the master of Envirotex. He led a workshop last year and showed us how to mix and pour the Envirotex. It was pretty easy and the result was really good. I have this kit and will definitely use it. BTW, your walls are really looking good. I like the overall look. Phil

KKarns
January 2017
Hey Phil, If I remember right, I don’t think anyone had any major problems getting their “water” pour correct in that clinic? Also Mitch, there was a room full of us and everyone was working with that stuff and I don’t recall any odor at all.

MitchN
January 2017
Thank you Carl, Phil and Ken for sharing your experience with Envirotex. I am at the point where if it was fumey I would revert to Plexiglass if I had to. I will be into the insulation foam soon and I had to decide which way I was going to make water. The new experience of working with Envirotex wins.
Bill, thank you for the advice on the Envirotex and the corrugated aluminum. I probably read your description of finishing the panels when your were detailing them in the Deer Creek Mine build but since I was not going to be building that kit I really didn’t study them. I appreciate your help and criticism.

Mitch

ironmountainlumber
January 2017
Hi Mitch,
The walls look fantastic!
Jim

Mike Engler
January 2017
Mitch it’s looking great. Envirotex the way to go, especially with the logs floating. Besides all the advice from the guys here helping you, the 800 number customer service people are really good. They referred the many model railroaders who called to one lady who understood how we are trying to represent water, and could answer questions about tinting with acrylic or oils, how to prevent it from leaching up at the shore-line. I also couldn’t detect odor or fumes. Pay attention to the mix and use times. Ask CarlLaskey why I say that.

MitchN
January 2017
Thank you Jim.
Thank you for your advice Mike and I am glad you are following along.
Carl, do you have an envirotex story to share?
Mitch

CarlLaskey
January 2017
Mitch I do.
Just about the time I was making my last pour I had my wife Sandy help me by watching the timer. So I mixed up everything and was ready to go I said to Sandy did you start the timer and she said yes so off we go, I started to pour and everything looked OK until the resin stop coming out of the pitcher It got hard and set up so I had this stream of Envirotex that was getting hard and there it was I could let go of the pitcher and it stayed right where it was.
Sandy started the timer when I was starting the pour not when I started mixing and I asked her how is the time and she said you have a lot of time left.
With some cursing and noise I broke off the stream off at the pond and with luck it broke off even with the pond so I was able to make one more pour to cover the damage that was done.

The best part of the story was Sandy said it was all my fault I did not argue with her, I brought the now well known pitcher to the Expo to let everyone see that anything can happen.
Carl

PS that was the year that I was inducted to the Craftsman Structure Hall of Fame.
So I guess that anyone can get in.

MitchN
January 2017
Great story Carl. I am glad you shared it.

Does anyone else have a sawmill story they would like to share?
Mitch

admin
January 2017
Mitch, great progress and wonderful modeling. Your mill is going to be fantastic! I have quite a few sawmill stories to share, one involves a sweet old family cat and my pilot model about one hour after I completed the envirotex pour…

Geezerbill
January 2017
Great story Carl! Brett, oh oh, footprints in the water??

Geezerbill

Wes
January 2017
Hey Carl, do you have a picture of the pitcher for us? Id love to see it.

MitchN
February 2017
More sawmill progress.

I have glued some of the Styrofoam insulation together to get my heights correct for the components that need it so I can put off building the log pond as long as I can. Since this will be part of my layout I need to do more imagining before I commit to something. The starting base size will be at least 4 X 4 feet maybe more.
I am building the flat car ramp and deck and I feel there should be a moss growing on the timbers of the ramp from the constant moisture. Maybe some of the deck to we will see.

A couple more pictures thrown in.

KCSTrains
February 2017
Mitch, this is really looking good. Phil

Bill
February 2017
Continues to look good, Mitch.
Im having flash backs to 2011!

CarlLaskey
February 2017
Mitch
Well my friend you are doing a outstanding job.
Carl

KKarns
February 2017
Not only are you getting a ton of work done, you’re maintaining quality of the build which is so important on a large project such as this. Well done.

MitchN
February 2017
Phil, Bill and Carl great to hear from all of you. Thank you for the encouragement. Ken, just getting started with this one. I just completed the old mill dock, flat car ramp and dock. Trying to decide on final finishing. Pictures soon.

MitchN
February 2017
With an old mill and a newer mill side by side I felt the old mills wood around the water should be more weathered than the new mill. If they were identical it just would not seem right. I used a moss looking green on the weathered boards because there would be so much moisture constantly being added from the wet logs coming out of the pond that it would be inevitable.

The components are sitting on a piece of glass on the layout behind me where I work. Its not the best setting for the pictures but the train will not be racing up the ramp into the sawmill as the second picture might indicate.

admin
February 2017
Wow Mitch, looking fantastic. Great weathering! Timbers are well worn and very convincing…

Joel
February 2017
I really like the green. It adds a real sense of moisture and age. What did you use to achieve the effect?

KCSTrains
February 2017
Mitch, great idea on the moss or algae coloring of the wood. Very convincing. Phil

nextceo
February 2017
Man, you’re moving fast. Do you sleep?

KKarns
February 2017
Marvelous progress Mitch…and well thought out regarding the weathering of the two mills. Well hands down everyone likes your scummy green algae! Nicely done Mitch.

NejcR
February 2017
Great start Mitch!
I like the weathering you’ve done so far…

MitchN
February 2017
I was leary about the green moss on the timbers. What would others think but I pressed ahead anyway. I could always scrape it off. The green color is Sennelier pastel 652 cinnabar green. It is just dusted on not sealed with alcohol. I used it around the water on my shipyard build.

The other effect I would like to add is standing water on the timbers from the water dripping off the logs out of the log pond. I assume I would use acrylic gloss medium. At the same time I do not remember anyone else doing this. Is this something that can’t be pulled off convincingly?

Thank you Brett, Joel, Phil, Ken, Ed and Nejc for your encouragement.

Alan, I work full time and my wife expects to see me more than once and a while. I generally only work on weekends, about 4-5 hours total. It seems to me that I should have a lot more accomplished than I have. One thing that has made a difference however is using the ink to stain all the wood ahead of time.

Wes
March 2017
That moss look is spot on Mitch.

A touch lots of modellers including myself often overlook.

ironmountainlumber
March 2017
Hey Mitch!
Great job. This is coming along nicely. I really like the green chalk on pictures above. This color is very natural and complements the age of the building extremely well.
Looking forward to more updates.
Jim

MitchN
April 2017
Its been months since I have worked on this project. I am back at it and will be posting some small progress. Here is the dynamite shack.

Karl.A
April 2017 edited April 2017
I haven’t seen this thread before Mitch, but I definitly intend to read back through this thread to catch up on your work.
Progress is progress, and even small progress is great to see, we all know about that.
The shack is looking great and I look forward to seeing how it developes.

Karl.A

MitchN
June 2017
More progress. Check off the boat house.

On to the sawdust shed.

Karl.A
June 2017
man… I just typed out three paragraphs and lost it all…
it was all good and complimentary… I have to muster up energy to type it all again…
Sheesh

Karl.A
June 2017
That looks great Mitch, I noticed the darker bottoms to the walls showing retained moisture and added aging, I really like how its subtly done and yet noticeable, something that can easily be over done but I think you got it just right.

The board variations in the boat house walls are really nice, all blend together but great vaiations. In that same thought the difference between the two structures is also noticeable (in a good way) the smaller one seems greyer but they fit together well, no contrast, more compliment.

The bracing on the supports looks just right to me, diagonal enough to add lateral strength, not uniform so adds interest and a ‘slightly’ random look without going too far and getting cartoony, just the right combination.

Overall, very nicely done.

Karl.A

You may not be finished yet, but one ‘minor’ suggestion if you want it…

MitchN
June 2017
Karl I am glad you went through the extra effort and retyped your positive comments. As I have stated before I appreciate everyone’s feedback because it confirms what I have done is okay. If it is not usually people are kind so they say nothing.
If you have any suggestions for improvement I welcome them.

Karl.A
June 2017 edited June 2017
You may not have finished work on the decking but…
The decking would blend nicely to my eye if it echoed the walls. What I mean is, where the walls meet the deck (your first four pics) if the deck was darker at the join and faded outwards, just as the walls fade upwards it creates realism.
If the walls show evidence of trapped water in that corner where they meet the deck, so would the deck,
Moisture trapped there would wick out as well as up, currently there is a harsh ( not really harsh but… definite) line where the nicely weathered wall meets the clean deck.

Blending the deck will make a much more effective and realistic look, Its often over looked but something I always used to do for a seamless transition.

If the structure/s aren’t glued down yet, it should be easy to try in a hidden area, if they are glued, go carefully where it wont be seen to try it out.

They both look great, but, just one more small step you could try to take it a little further.

as I say, try a ‘hidden’ area first, or even a mocked up piece of dock.

Keep up with the good work and the posts, I’m enjoying them a lot.

Karl.A

MitchN
June 2017
Karl, I agree with your suggestion. I think I can add the effect without too much trouble. When I try and it works, fingers crossed, I will post more pictures. Thank you.

KKarns
June 2017
Great work Mitch, Karl has critiqued things well as usual. Nice progress.

MitchN
July 2017
Thanks Ken.
I tried to employ Karl’s suggestion bout extending the water stain onto the platforms under the walls. Here is what I have.

The sawdust shed is not much to look at so I am skipping that picture. I did take pictures of the sawdust conveyer that starts in the sawdust shed.

KKarns
July 2017
Looking great Mitch…love the sawdust conveyor. Deck weathering might need to be a bit darker and less uniform to my eye? Of course I’m always in favor of grungy…to a fault I guess!

admin
July 2017
yeah doc grunge has spoken! Looks great Mitch!

Karl.A
July 2017 edited July 2017
Conveyor looks great, as you can imagine I LOVE those intricate looking structures, the finished pictures look so complicated and fragile, looks great.

As Ken says the deck staining could maybe do with being a little darker, his keen eye.

It definitely looks much much better, no more harsh contrast between wall and deck, but, as Ken notes, a few shades darker would be great, but, if not, then it looks better as is.

Enjoying the updates.
Karl.A

nextceo
July 2017
Thanks for sharing Mitch…looks Great! Nice job on those Windows.

MitchN
July 2017
Thanks for all your comments.

In my mind the boards that run away from the wall would have more water stain that would show up more like the corner of pictures 2 & 3. The boards that run parallel to the walls would only stain the board closest to the wall. The stain would not extend to the next board. Maybe I am over thinking this. Since you all seem to agree the stain should show up more I will contemplate a little more before I add to the stain.
I appreciate all your suggestions and comments. Makes me feel better about what I am doing.

Karl.A
July 2017
I agree with you Mitch, and I was thinking the same as I was looking earlier, which is why I kinda backed off.

You have some boards running perpendicular to the walls, and some boards running parallel.
Indeed too much over thinking of these things can lead to a headache…

As you have also noticed this difference I’ll expand further into the realms of my madness…

The boards perpendicular to the wall the moisture would wick outwards as it does up the wall, the moisture/dirt/stains would seep outwards, but not too far, I think you have the distance right but maybe just a little darker.

As for the boards parallel to the wall, the board closest to the wall, again would be darker , but, the next board wouldn’t get nearly so much water damage/effect due to the fact that the water/moisture would pass through the gap between the boards before getting to the next one.

So much to think about, so much to drive you crazy, sometimes impressionism is easier than realism, we all draw that line somewhere.

Karl.A

Karl.A
July 2017
Oh, and as I said earlier, what you have now looks good, so, don’t push it too far, unless YOU want to.

Karl.A

MitchN
July 2017
Thanks for your comments Karl and Ed.

On to the slab bin. The bottom of the chute is a scale 23 feet from the ground. Seems pretty high. Since that is the way it is designed and everyone else built it that high I will build it that way to.

Karl.A
July 2017
A wise choice Mitch,
I’m sure there were reasons, I haven’t built this amazing kit yet so I cant comment on what they may be, but, as with everything in a SWSM kit, it sure as hell wasn’t random.

Looking forward to seeing your next update.

Karl.A

Bill
July 2017
Nice progress, Mitch. Good job on the conveyor. That’s an intricate little feature and you built it with lots of character. In a couple of the pics, the wood looks really “new” to my eye. Almost like fresh cut lumber. It could be the angle or the lighting. If not, a little chalk powder dusted on here and there will help weather and add some age to it.
I’d use some raw umber (408.5, .7, and .9) and maybe even a little raw sienna (234.3 is a nice earthy color). If you want to be daring, some light grays will give it a sun-bleached type aging.

MitchN
July 2017
Thanks for the help Bill. Always appreciated.

I weathered the conveyer a little more as suggested. I used my alcohol and ink to do this. The same stain I used on the wood originally. Just more of it. Here is the result.

Now let us compare it to the newly built slab bin. The slab bin looks like it was just built by comparison. Going to need some serious weathering on that structure now.

When more progress is made I will post.

Karl.A
July 2017 edited July 2017
The construction is perfect, the joints are all tight and it looks amazing structurally, I cant wait to see what you do with it.

I’m curious as to why the bin looks so new, I haven’t built the kit yet, or even read the manual, so, I don’t know how all this fits in or the processes involved. I’m eager to see the next pictures.

Karl.A

MitchN
July 2017
Thanks Ed.

Karl, the camera is not capturing the color I am seeing. The wood on both structures is more brown and grey while the camera makes the structures more yellow. The slab bin needs to be weathered but it is not as nearly new looking as the picture suggests.

Karl.A
July 2017 edited July 2017
That answers my question Mitch, thanks for your reply, the camera can certainly be our friend sometimes, but other times it doesn’t quite tell the truth.

I look forward to the next update.

Karl.A

MikeM
July 2017
Just curious; given all the comments over the years I’ve come to wonder if the difference between what’s seen with the naked eye vs. the posted pictures is due to the camera, lighting, camera settings, the translation to a web file, my monitor settings or all of the above. How do the website versions compare to what you see on your monitor when using your photo-processing/viewing app?

MitchN
July 2017
I took some pictures with a different background.

The change in background helped the camera capture a truer color to my eye. Please dismiss the previous pictures because their color is too…
The slab bin still needs to be weathered but at least it does not look brand new now.

MitchN
July 2017
Looking at the pictures on my computer they look fine. On my cellphone only the first picture looks close but it is not the same. All the other pictures have a red cast. I give up!

Karl.A
July 2017
If it looks good to your eyes in person and you are happy with it, then that’s all that matters.
Sometimes conveying that is impossible, too many variables. The modelling is great and that’s what matters most.

Karl.A

KKarns
July 2017
Great work Mitch. Love the weathering on the conveyer and that’s some serious work you have done so far. Has to be the greatest HO Scale kit ever produced. You will enter a class and fraternity of modelers, with this one under your belt, that few have obtained…I’ll be there…some day!..well done (so far lol)

MitchN
July 2017
This should be the last pictures I post of the slab bin now that it is weathered. I used a white background to try to get the wood colors darker.

KKarns
July 2017
Very nice Mitch. Weathering looks great as does the overall construction.

MitchN
August 2017
This is the log brow. Its construction is a little different in that you have to cut into the wood to make the pieces fit together. I used a sanding drum on a dremel tool to make the shapes in the wood to fit. Made the depth of each one by eye and seem to have gotten away with it.

KKarns
August 2017
Nice looking construction and wood color. Will look great after final weathering and situated next to the log pond. Every element you complete here reminds me of what an extensive and brilliant kit the Twin Mills is.

admin
August 2017
I love your log brow. It took a beating and you have captured that abuse extremely well Mitch! Be sure to color all the exposed ends.

Karl.A
August 2017
It definitely looks ‘rough and ready’ Mitch, just as it should… great construction
and as Ken and Brett have mentioned, once all those rough cut ends are darkened down its going to look even more fantastic.

I sometimes think its a shame that all of these smaller things get lost in the ‘vastness’ of the ‘Twin Mills’, but then remember that it is because of this quality throughout everything that that is what makes it so spectacular.

Keep up the great work and the pictures.

Karl.A

MitchN
August 2017
Brett and Ken I struggled with with the coloring of the ends of the wood. I had them colored but they were all practically black because the ends take the stain that way as anyone who does this knows. I did not like the look so I sanded off the stain. I don’t really like the square wood that way but I like the logs that way. I feel a little stuck. I suppose I need to find a color I can live with for the square ends.

MitchN
August 2017
Thanks Karl. You posted while I was responding to Brett and Ken’s comments. Do you think the log ends are okay but not the square wood or should all the ends get stained?

Karl.A
August 2017
Going back and thinking about it, to be honest, I’m pondering a couple of things…

Karl.A
August 2017 edited August 2017
I typed a long reply, but, well, ultimately that bottom left round log end stands out and needs a ‘touch’.
Overall I think the log ends are OK, maybe one or two of the very light spots could be dulled a little if I was being fussy, but that may be the lighting.
Maybe just a slight touch (or two) with a very weak a/I mix on a detail brush on some of the square ends to ‘kill’ the new wood look but not darken them. As you say, its tough to determine, but I think that will do it.

MitchN
August 2017
I thank everyone for their positive comments and suggestions. I will attempt to improve the log brow and post the results.

MitchN
August 2017
I went back and diluted my stain by about a power of ten. Very thin. Then I went back and applied coats to it until I felt it looked better.

The first picture is how the wood looked with full strength stain in some places. The squares and the log on the right are practically black even though the camera seems to lighten them.

Now I will present what the log brow looks like now.

I think that wraps up the log brow although I am always interested in suggestions. I will turn to the next page in the instructions and see what adventure is next.

Karl.A
August 2017
I like it.

Karl.A

MitchN
October 2017
I have been away from the work bench for a while and will be getting back to the sawmill soon. I have to start building the base with the log pond. I have been putting this off. My question is…is there a rule of thumb limit to how big the pond can be in relation to the resin poured for the pond? I would like to make the pond bigger, not deeper, than the instructions show. Is that a problem in any way?

Mike Engler
October 2017
I can’t see a limit, assuming it is Envirotex Lite. I wanted my pond as large as possible that would fit on a 3ft. x 4ft. base. I taped two pieces of 1/2" Gatorboard together and laminated 1 inch pink foam on top for the land forms. As I recall the pond was about 30% larger than the one in Brett’s instructions.

I made seven 1/8" pours of Envirotex. The gory details are on an old and very long thread on RRLine done by our friend Elliott and myself (Duelling Mills). My rather large diorama was dragged across the country a couple of times (and to Canada) and isn’t the worse for ware, and no warping.

CarlLaskey
October 2017
Mitch. I made mine quite a bit larger than Brett’s the bigger the better. …Carl

Bill
October 2017
Mitch-
That makes three of us! I made mine larger than what was called for in the manual by about the same dimensions as Mike and Carl’s. The only thing I’d suggest is making sure your base is plenty sturdy. The Envirotex is pretty heavy so depending on how much bigger you build the pond, you’ll but putting more weight on the substructure.
I believe I used 1/2" particle board and I haven’t had any issues.

CarlLaskey
October 2017
Mitch. i used 3/4 finished grade plywood and no issues with it in ten years.

MitchN
October 2017
Thank you Mike, Carl and Bill for your advice.

NejcR
October 2017 edited October 2017
It’s always nice to see this kit being build. Great job so far!

Nejc

MitchN
December 2017
Getting back to the sawmill. Not much new to look at yet. I have a space measuring 4 X12 feet to place the sawmill, pond and the other kits that go along with this sawmill. I have not touched the other kits yet.One of these days, weeks, months(?) I will get enough courage to cut the styrofoam and make a pond.

MitchN
December 2017
Yes, about 2/3 of the way back on the styrofoam is my little waterfront scene I made a while ago with the shipyard and Shelby’s. It is resting there until I build another peninsula to display it. If you are interested in seeing it (I am kind of proud of it) it is under the wood finishing category and it’s called making the ship look like fresh wood.
Thanks for noticing.

MitchN
December 2017
Thanks Ed. Appreciate it.

KKarns
December 2017
Looking good Mitch…time to take the “plunge” and get the log pond carved out!

MitchN
December 2017
The reason I skipped over the base until now is integrating the sawmill complex into a larger complex of track and buildings. With the third layer of foam around the outside of the diorama and one layer of foam in the sorting area, the tracks will be going up and down quite a bit and I don’t like that. I have decided to eliminate the third level around the pond. To accomplish this I will eliminate the lower level of the log brow to compensate. I do not see any way to keep the area around the sorting area at the same level as the mill so I will follow the instructions for this area.
I am interested in any other sawmill builders photos of how they integated their sawmill into their layout. Please post any pics you like on this thread. Thank you.

MitchN
December 2017
The reason I skipped over the base until now is integrating the sawmill complex into a larger complex of track and buildings. With the third layer of foam around the outside of the diorama and one layer of foam in the sorting area, the tracks will be going up and down quite a bit and I don’t like that. I have decided to eliminate the third level around the pond. To accomplish this I will eliminate the lower level of the log brow to compensate. I do not see any way to keep the area around the sorting area at the same level as the mill so I will follow the instructions for this area.
I am interested in any other sawmill builders photos of how they integated their sawmill into their layout. Please post any pics you like on this thread. Thank you.

MitchN
December 2017
The pond has been cut out. It looked pretty big until I dropped the structures in. I may enlarge it in the dynamite shack direction but we’ll see. The journey continues.

KKarns
December 2017
Well that’s looking quite purposeful! Nicely done Mitch. Geesh, that’s such a great kit and you have done a wonderful job with it.

mikemettelka
December 2017
Looks good!

brownbr
December 2017
Looks awesome

MitchN
January 2018
Thanks Ken, Mike, Bryan and Ed.

Here are some pictures of the sorting table, donkey shed and tool sheds.

Page 58 in the instructions which go to 120 pages. Not for the impatient.

CarlLaskey
January 2018
Nice work Mitch.

admin
January 2018
Looks great, coming along nicely. Hey Mitch - lots of pics in that manual!

Bill
January 2018
Looking good, Mitch! The second half of this project goes by a lot faster than the first plus, there’s a lot of fun stuff towards the home stretch. Keep up the fine work!

KKarns
January 2018 edited January 2018
That’s what I love about Brett’s kits, so enjoyable to work through each component and sub-assembly as a kit into itself and then see your work evolve to the finished diorama…almost magical! Great progress Mitch.

Geezerbill
January 2018
Loving this build Mitch! Just outstanding.

Geezerbill

lebelge
January 2018
Congratulations

lebelge
January 2018
It’s very very nice

MitchN
January 2018
Carl,ADMIN,Bill, Ken< Bill and lebelge --thank you all for commenting.

I have some questions someone may be able to answer.

In building the log haul drive and deck frame the shaft support box in my construction is slightly off the deck . Is this correct or have I made a mistake? See pictures below. The staining and finishing is incomplete.

I was also wondering about the realism of my logs. I have two, for lack of a better term styles, pictured. The little figure is a scale 5 foot-eight inches tall. The logs are fir bird perches about 14 inches long which will need to be cut into pieces 3 inches long to represent the logs in the log pond, etc.

The other style.

Are either of these two any good or do you have any better sources?

CarlLaskey
January 2018
Hi Mitch I used Azalea branches for my logs it is a very slow growing bush and the bark and growth rings are almost to scale for your project…Carl

CarlLaskey
January 2018
I will look a mine in the morning and let you know.I am sure that Bill knows.

Bill
January 2018 edited January 2018
Mitch-
I used Douglas fir bird perches on mine. I think you’ve got the right size in both pictures–these things were MASSIVE a lot of times. Personally, I like the second set you showed. I can’t put my finger on it exactly, but the first ones have a plainness about them. Like, on the model they might truly look “sticks” rather than massive logs from the forest.
I’m currently working on the O scale sawmill and I’m gonna see how grape vine works. I found some wild vines growing in the woods and they have an awesome outer texture that should look real close to tree bark. I don’t have any pictures handy right now…

As far as the log deck & haul, I can’t get a full sense of the issue you’re having based on the pictures.
The log haul should line up flush with the deck. It appears that’s how you have yours.
If your question is about the legs that support the deck, it looks like they don’t seem to be touching anything. On my model, the legs were supported by the wooden timbers of the retaining wall:

Perhaps your retaining wall needs another row of timbers added to it. Then, make the top of the timbers flush with the styrofoam. (See how I shimmed mine from the bottom? That’ll never be seen once the water is added.)

Does this help?

MitchN
January 2018
Thanks for the fast feedback Carl and Bill.

My question about the gap underneath the shaft support box is illustrated in this picture.

You can see the gap between the wood and the metal in the picture and I think I can spot that in your build, Bill. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

This is how the log haul should roughly line up on the log deck. I will have to shim the log haul to to the proper height in my build.

These are supposed to be fir perches but there must be a variety of firs used. I eliminated three perches from the first batch I pictured ending up with these three which at least look like they have a bark pattern (in the foreground), I think.

Grape vine, Douglas fir? I have more things to consider.

One more question is on the rails. I left the rails on the sorting table rusty because they would not have that much traffic to keep them shiny but what about the flat car ramp and the log deck. It seems like the top of the rails should be shiny or at least look like un-rusted metal somehow. Or I am over thinking this and I should just leave everything rusty rail looking?

brownbr
January 2018
I like the size of the logs. 2nd choice would get my vote. Agree with Karl that Azalea makes good looking logs as well.
Bryan

Bill
January 2018
Ok, I see that now. Mine has that gap too–maybe even bigger:

Check pg 58 of the manual. The picture at the top looks to me like the top support beam of the log deck butts up flush with the top beam of the highest bent. So, I believe you’re in good shape. Just make sure the angled pieces and walkway on the bents line up with the angled pieces on the Log deck (which haven’t been added on your model) Template M1 illustrates this.

I also made my rails shiny in the areas you’re planning to leave shiny.

Geezerbill
January 2018
I also like the second set of logs. I used Rhododendrons which have a great bark texture to them. See picture below.

great work on the mill!!

CarlLaskey
January 2018 216.66.125.15
Mitch. This is the best that I can do for a pictures.

I hope that this helps. …Carl

MitchN
January 2018
Thanks Bill, Bill and Carl. I like the mottled logs better in the picture than I do in person. Both of the builds have the support off the deck, so that is settled. Carl you really worked over the wood in your structures. Nice job. Mine is newer, at least that is my excuse for not doing all that work.

MitchN
February 2018
Assembled log haul and log deck.

Log carriage coming up.

CarlLaskey
February 2018
Very nice Mitch boy do I remember all of that work…Carl

KKarns
February 2018
Labor of love…nice work Mitch.

Joel
February 2018
Looks great.

MitchN
February 2018
Thanks for the comments Carl, Ken and Joel.
I did not think I did a good job of capturing the color of the castings in the last post so here is another try.

That is more what they look like to my eye.

Frank3
February 2018
Don’t know quite where to thank all of you folks and your postings, so I’ll start here. I am new to Sierra West, and 1 year into Ho railroading. Started with small wood kits. Am now working on the re-release of the Railroad Camp. Doing OK so far, but looking through all the work/building you folks have done is a lesson unto itself. You all have helped me more than you know. Much thanks.

ironmountainlumber
February 2018
The machinery looks great Mitch as well as the rest of the build!
Jim

MitchN
February 2018
Thanks for your encouragement Ed and Jim.

Frank, glad you are looking in. Patiently following the directions leads to good results. Post some pictures of the camp. We all enjoy looking at Sierra West builds.

MitchN
March 2018
I did not finish the log carriage because I need a log to mount on the carriage. I am still not satisfied with the logs I have so I am putting that aside for now.

I painted and assembled the double blade circular husk saws. Hope that is not redundant.

The next step in the instructions is to paint the castings. So here we go.

CarlLaskey
March 2018
Look’s good Mitch. …Carl

ironmountainlumber
March 2018
Very cool!
Jim

KKarns
March 2018
Nice detail work Mitch. So many nice features of Twin Mills…

MitchN
April 2018
Have not posted for a while because I have not been working on this for a while. I thought I would post a couple of things.

Here are the live rolls and the dead rolls.

Here is roughly where they will be in the new mill.

Castings are supposed to be next but there are so many I will probably paint a few at a time. These are the castings that have at least some wood.

For some idea of how many more there are to paint these are the rest of the castings in the box. There are still some more in bags.

I would say this is what we have come to expect in a Sierra West kit. There is no skimping on the latest HO sawmill kits as you can see. Down to single bottles!

vietnamseabee
April 2018
Holy smokers…I’ve got Twin Mills on order…had no idea what I was getting myself into ;-))
Terry

admin
April 2018
Great to see your work Mitch! Main floor looks awesome!

sulaw89
April 2018
One thing I notice in a real mill is a wear pattern on the floor. Around machines or area where cleanup would be done to move waste. In the Flour Mill at New Hope, New York; the Lumber mills at Roseburg Lumber Co. in Dillard, OR, and the old Hub Lumber Co in Roseburg you would see the wear patterns on the floors. I even saw them on the floors of the old box cars and engines my grandfather repaired. Has anyone come up with a way to duplicate those patterns?

vietnamseabee
April 2018
If the wood floor is stained with alcohol/chalk I wonder if a cloth wrapped index finger dipped in alcohol and “dragged” were the wear pattern would be would do the trick
Terry

Karl.A
April 2018
Definitly one of those questions that can only be answered by just tying it out on a piece of test flooring. Until you try you’ll never know.
Karl.A

brownbr
April 2018
I’m a big fan of going darker on the floor and sanding the paths using a high grit paper or stick.

MitchN
May 2018
The donkey engine that resides on the unloading platform.

KKarns
May 2018
Wonderfully done Mitch.

Robert.G
May 2018
I am always surprised how much detail there is , even in HO. Nice work .!

MitchN
July 2018
The roofs on the boiler house are not as orange as they appear in the pictures. They do not look orange at all in person. All of the roofs are removable at this point so they can be assembled quickly when the buildings are put in their final positions.

vietnamseabee
July 2018 edited July 2018
Looking good…did I say good???I meant Great
Terry

KKarns
July 2018
Well done Mitch, really nice to see such a terrific update. Love the paint peel on the siding. What a wonderful build you’ve got going…Ken

admin
July 2018
Looking so good, excellent progress!

Karl.A
July 2018
The peel has already been mentioned, and I agree,
additionally..
I’m really liking that tonal variation in the board/batton on the roof, very
nicely done, subtle and natural, great.

Karl.A

Robert.G
July 2018
Looking absolutely great!!!

MitchN
August 2018
I gave up on finding better logs than I had. Now I can go back through the instructions I skipped because of them.

I see in the pictures there is a tiny bit of brass showing on the chains. Very fixable.
Much done, more to go.

I would like to thank Bill, Mike and Carl for the previous posts of their award winning sawmills. I would have hated to attempt this without them. Anyone contemplating building this kit must use them as a reference because as extensive as the instructions are there is nothing like a color picture of a completed assembly to give you confidence in what you are trying to accomplish.

CarlLaskey
August 2018
Mitch. Great work keep it up. …Carl…

KKarns
August 2018
Those logs look awfully good to me. Nice tight fine growth rings, bark looks plausible…nice.

Robert.G
August 2018
I agree with Ken. What kind of wood did you use for them?

MitchN
September 2018
Hi Robert, the wood I am using for the logs are bird perches from Pet Smart which is a pet supply store chain. Here in Northwest Ohio there are three in the area and each store has maybe two in stock. The ones in one store do not necessarily match the ones from another. Batches of tree limbs used for birds were not meant to match in a log pond. Go figure? So I purchased what they had and waited for them to restock. When I went back they were different. They did not match the ones I bought before. So I kept buying them and have a collection. The ones in stock now are not close to being usable so I sorted through my collection for the closest matches. The ones I used in the previous post do not match the ones that will be in the log pond. They will be somewhat hidden so I decided to use them where they are at. The others will look like this.

Thank you for your offer Carl but I have convinced myself that the logs cut to size from similar perches like the ones in the picture above will be okay in the log pond. This sawmill will never be in a contest room and I suppose (hope!) my guests will not think they could have been better.

Moving on.

The castings were daunting because of the sheer volume of them. Eventually I made my way through most of them.

Here are some of the larger ones.

For whatever reason the pictures seem to enhance the orange in the rust but to my eye they tend more toward a brown in person.

I realize most of you have a preference for black tools on the workbenches but it is not my preference. I like the look of the weathered silver tools.

Now that I have progressed this far the way everything fits together is clearer to me especially the belting for the various pulleys for the machines. That was scaring me. Not anymore.

The next big hurdle of course is the corrugated roof. Bill’s advice from a long time ago when I started this kit is a big help. Thank you in advance.

I still need to cut the terrain foam for the trestles and the transfer table.

And a lot of other things.

Much done, more to go.

Ken, sorry I have not complimented you on the work you are doing on the new kit. I find it gives me a smile to see your work. I nod and say you can tell its a Ken Karns model. Your look, as always is pure Dr. Grunge. Keep it up.

MitchN
September 2018
I am not sure why some of the pictures in the previous posting did not show up here is another attempt.

Not the greatest pictures but its something.

Karl.A
September 2018
That is some really great work on those castings. Very nice work.

Karl. A

KKarns
September 2018
Wonderful casting detail Mitch!..Love your workbench coloring and contrasts so nicely with all the clutter detail. You’ve got some well spent time here…beautiful.

MitchN
September 2018
Thanks for the encouragement Karl and Ken. I appreciate it.

Thew new mill is beginning to take shape.

Some of the castings are not in the right place yet.

vietnamseabee
September 2018
Amazing work, Mitch
Terry

geoawelch
September 2018
What beautiful work on such an intricate model, Mitch

George

CarlLaskey
September 2018
Great job Mitch this is the fun part the roof is well you will see,The space in between the mill and the floor is very important so the roof will line up with the other one. …Carl…

brownbr
September 2018
Great job on the castings and overall build.

Are the saw blades permenantly set? If not, consider taking them off and putting circular wear marks on the blade. Simply attach to dremel at slow speed and touch brush with appropriate paint to spinning blade.

KKarns
September 2018
I’m amazed at this kit everytime I see it, and you’re doing a wonderful job with it.

admin
September 2018
Wonderful progress Mitch, a real treat to follow along. Thanks for all the great pics! Everything is looking so good.

vietnamseabee
September 2018 edited September 2018
Brian…great idea about the spinning blade…so many good ideas to be gained from hangin’ with you guys
Terry

MitchN
September 2018
Thanks for the positive comments everyone.

I considered putting the circles on the saw blade long before I started to put the saw blades together. There is an old sawmill, water powered, near me called the Isaac Ludwig mill. They actually use the mill to cut wood. Here are a couple of pictures.

I think the circles are a good idea and the execution would not be difficult. I kept coming back to these pictures and decided not to add them. I will admit there is a slight ring around the outside but it is light.

MitchN
September 2018
I have run into a problem (opportunity?) with the wings on the new mill where they enter the old mill.

The directions show that the wings fit inside the rafters of the new mill. In the instruction book the assembly looks like this.

The picture below clearly shows the truss tight against the saw filers floor.

The picture below shows the position of the wings inside the rafters. Boards most be glued on the cardboard which will make it slighty thicker.

I thought I did everything according to instructions on the old mill roof with the opening and the walls on the new mill but this is what it looks like.

The first two pictures show the wing walls outside the truss so if I move them inside the truss the gaps on each side will be that much bigger, like the ones in the third picture.

You can see in the last picture how far away the wing wall is from the old roof opening. I am asking advice from those who have built this mill before did you run into the same problem or did I trip myself up somewhere. The opening in the old roof is precisely the same as the instructions. I suppose what I need to do is to add boards to the old roof to close the gaps on each side. Should I break off the truss supports on the truss closest to the old mill and move them inside to make more room for the wing walls?

As I sit here and think about it maybe I should move the trusses away from the saw filers floor to leave a gap for the wall to fit into which would move the walls closer to the old roof opening. I could use beams running across the new mill to hold up the saw filers floor. But what will this extra distance do to the fit of the roof above it?

MitchN
September 2018
Right or wrong I went ahead and made the wing walls around the saw filers room fit the space they needed to be in. I added boards to the old mill roof to fill in the spaces on each side. here are the results.

vietnamseabee
September 2018
Thanks for your posting, Mitch…Good problem solving on your part…I have the Twin Mills on order with Brett and will be especially aware of this area when I come to it…
Terry

MitchN
September 2018
Terry
What I should have checked before I built it was the roof opening on the old roof compared to the new mill framed wall that I built when I started the kit. It would have been simple to do but I assumed everything in the drawings were correct but in this case they were not. The opening in the drawing was off by two boards per side on my model. Not a big deal really just an unexpected surprise.

MitchN
September 2018
To anyone who cares to comment, grey enamel primer seems to be the way to proceed on the corrugated roof. Is etchant primer better than regular primer or doesn’t it matter?

CarlLaskey
September 2018 216.66.125.15
Mitch. Mike told me not to use etchant primer . Carl.

MitchN
September 2018
Thanks Carl. Keeps me from creating more problems.

MitchN
October 2018
The belts have been installed. The belt connecting the live rolls was a nasty one. Not as tight as I would like but it was the best I could do under the circumstances.

The first three pictures are taken at an angle that will be impossible to see once the buildings are properly arranged on the layout. The pictures below represent what will be able to be seen.

Thanks for looking.

geoawelch
October 2018
Fantastic, Mitch. I can’t even imagine.

George

MitchN
October 2018
Thanks for the comment George.

More of the interior of the new mill.

Added a few castings to make the interior a little more interesting.

Thanks for looking.

brownbr
October 2018
More interesting for sure. It looks great.

CarlLaskey
October 2018
Mitch. Now it gets interesting of where to put all of your details, Looks great keep up the fine work…Carl…

Dave_S
October 2018
Mitch,

A breathtaking build. The coloring of the wood is great and the machinery on the mill floor couldn’t be better. Just a fine exhibition of spectacular care taken to make each detail look real.
Really great to see such an open view of the detailed inside of this beauty. As a carpenter wanna-be I am in awe of the detail of the stairs and overall realism of this build.
I’m torn at this point as I can’t wait to see the final views of the completed build and yet on the other hand I don’t want to see it end.

Later, Dave S Tucson, AZ

Karl.A
October 2018
Continuing to look fantastic Mitch, everything is coming together beautifully.
I’m particularly liking all your wood tones in this particular set of pics. Really nice
warmth and variations, I’m also liking following along as you are starting to add those details and seeing it evolve..
Very nice work.

Karl.A

Robert.G
October 2018
I am with Karl. What a nice build!

KKarns
October 2018
Great build Mitch. Those belts are tough and quite fiddly to get the right amount of tension. As I have said before…I admire anyone who builds this wonderful DeerCreek Sawmill kit and hold in high esteem those who build it as well as this!

Karl.A
October 2018
You may have already done it, and I know these are progress pics… so, maybe irrelevant, but, don’t forget to ‘touch up’ those step edges on the lower level of stairs in the last pic.

Yes, I’ve been closely admiring and looking for two days and repeatedly enjoying this last set of pics.

Karl.A

MitchN
October 2018
Thanks to everyone for your encouragement. As I keep saying much done more to do.

As much work that has been done on the structures and castings this kit really comes down to the wooden roof on the old mill, the corrugated roof on the new mill and the log pond. All the details are fun but those large items are the first thing visitors will notice so they must be as “realistic” as possible. I must proceed carefully and not rush to get it done.

Karl, I am (pleased, surprised, excited) that you would take an extended look at my pictures. I know what you mean about the stair treads. I built the stairs some time ago and it has been set aside. Probably had an interruption and did not touch them up. The lack of stain is not as apparent in person but it does stand out in the picture. I am sure I do not study the pictures for flaws as much as I should before posting them. Rushing! I did notice after the fact but I appreciate your pointing it out.

Mitch

vietnamseabee
October 2018
Mitch…I can relate to the tone of some of your statements…I catch myself rushing to complete a step or saying to myself, “that’s close enough”…and I end up removing, redoing, or correcting during the next session…like you, I encourage and appreciate comments on my modeling
Terry

KCSTrains
October 2018 10.224.27.148
Mitch, I also have this kit and I’m very interested in how you build it. I have pictures of Bill’s build, but this will add to my collection that I will use as a reference guide. Soooo much detail and great craftsmanship. Unbelievable. Phil

Bill
October 2018
Hi Mitch-
I have been trying to figure out your wing wall puzzle and I think I got it. The groove end of the chipboard sits directly on top of the 4x12 on the floor. The surface that gets sided butts up snug against the inside of the trusses. Then, it gets sandwiched in between the vertical post and the truss.

So, I think the cut groove should have been facing downward and on top of the 4x12:

As long as your wing walls don’t interfere with the upper rafters or trusses, your solution should work fine.

If the slack in your belts are noticeable enough to where they’ll bother you in the future, by all means do them over. As time goes by, the odds are that they’ll develop MORE slack (changes in humidity, an inadvertent bump, etc.). To keep mine nice and tight, I glued one end to a lower drive wheel with CA. Once dry, I pulled the belt up and over the other drive wheel and clipped a small plastic clamp further down the belt material. The weight of the clamp added tension and kept it tight. When I was satisfied with the belt positioning on the top wheel, I gave a little slack, added a drop of glue and let the clamp pull the material tight. Once dry, I trimmed the excess an glued the loose end. It sounds complicated by there are pics and details toward the bottom of this page:

One more quick suggestion…make sure to add some loose sawdust on the floors and around the machines. Do it now as it’ll only get trickier as you add the remaining components and details.

Nice work all around!

MitchN
October 2018
Thanks for the comments Terry and Phil.

Always good to hear from you Bill. Appreciate your comments.

Here is the state of the model right now.

The new mill has a corrugated roof which apparently measures .75 long X .5 wide for each panel. The directions say I need 580 of them?

Here is what that looks like.

I painted all the panels flat grey. The next step is supposed to bake them at 350 degrees for three minutes. I did not want to pull all of those panels off these sheets to bake them and put them back on sheets to weather them. What to do???

I took my paint stripping heat gun and drifted it over the panels to heat them up and seal the paint to the aluminum. I did it. It seemed to work. I hope it works. I will find out.

KCSTrains
October 2018
That might just work. Great progress on the mill. Phil

nextceo
October 2018
It never gets old watching one of these mills being built…

KKarns
October 2018
Great shot of all the various structures that make up Twin Mills. Love that first picture with the great background. Your work appears impeccable!

MitchN
October 2018
While I try to figure out how I want to weather the corrugated roof I turned to the extensive scenery required for this model.

Here is the base.

There is a stream that leads into and out of the pond.

I found a color that represented a good earth color called Dapper Tan and used it for the foundation so I could use a very thin layer of real dirt

Next I added sculptamold to some of the shoreline.

Then I added dirt to the area under the new mill and the space between the old mill and the new mill. Not much will be visible between the mills but some scenery is in order to enhance the space.

I realize there is a gap underneath the building and the barrels are not buried in the dirt. The building will be taken care of later when it finds its permanent home and the barrels will barely be visible between the buildings.

Thanks for looking.

Robert.G
October 2018
So lovely to see a layout come together.

KCSTrains
October 2018
Thanks for the step-by-step guide here. It’s always helpful. Looking good. Phil

MitchN
October 2018
Thanks for the comments Robert and Phil.

I colored the sculptamold and added dirt and a little burnt grass to the shore of the pond. I like the way it looks but I may be fooling myself since I do not see any one else doing this. The resin pond will be half way up the slope when it is poured.

The base of the slopes need to be cleaned up and a color transition from the edge of the slope toward the center of the pond from lighter to darker needs to be painted in next. If the consensus is that the stained sculptamold does not work, I can cover the slopes in dirt and proceed from there.

Thanks for looking.

Karl.A
October 2018
I always use the ‘burnt grass’ colors instead of the bright greens, I find the muted tones blend much better with the style of structures and details that I model.
As for the sculptamold stain, as its the first large scenic element its colouration should determine the following elements, meaning that any other exposed rocks or such should generally follow that colour tone, then the scenery will look harmonized and natural throughout.

Looking good so far, enjoying seeing this evolve.

Karl.A

MitchN
October 2018
There is something I wanted to fix and I think I fixed it. I wanted to pass along my solution. Not very clever but a solution.

In a recent previous post there were some long grasses that were a brighter green than I would have liked. Well I made a stain with a Sennilier pastel number 062 and stained the grasses with it. Here are the results. They are all the same grasses just stained.

I think they are much improved compared to their previous color. Score another one for pastels.

Thanks for looking.

KCSTrains
October 2018
Good solution. Pastels can cure a lot of issues. Phil

brownbr
October 2018
The landscapers are doing a fine job here.

KKarns
October 2018
Looks great and the variegated color looks natural.

MitchN
October 2018
Completed the rough drying shed.

There is some glue that is still left on the rear wall studs. Obviously will not show when the roof is installed.

Some of the wood is stained another darker color to better match my sawdust.

Roof is installed but not papered yet.

Tar paper roof installed.

Still have not weathered the corrugated roof.

Thanks for looking.

admin
October 2018
Looking fantastic Mitch. Lumber stacks are perfect!

MitchN
October 2018
My camera loves to enhance orange or the computer does. I wanted to give you a better idea of the color I see when I look at the model not what the camera makes it look like.

The original picture is below.

I adjusted the “warmth” lower on my editing software on my computer and this is what I get.

It may not be a big deal to most but I do not want to edit all my pictures for their warmth bias, if that is what it is. But the lumber stacks in the first pictures appear much oranger than they do in person. Just trying to give you a better idea of what I see.

brownbr
October 2018
Lumber stacks look great as does the tarpaper

KCSTrains
October 2018
I’m glad you adjusted the color. It give you more of a sense of the true color. Your project is really coming along. Phil

Robert.G
October 2018
Lumber is very well done.

CarlLaskey
October 2018
Spot on Mitch the lumber looks very real keep it up. …Carl…

KKarns
October 2018
Board variation looks great and so well done!

MitchN
November 2018
Thanks for the comments Bryan, Phil, Robert, Carl and Ken.

Another shot or two of the rough drying shed.

I have added some sawdust to the interior of the new mill.

The saw dust shows up better in person and it is more subtle than overwhelming.

I lightly rusted some of the corrugated to represent a roof that is relatively new and just starting to rust. After all it is a new mill. The corrugated is being held down by masking tape and will be flatter when installed.

Thanks for looking.

brownbr
November 2018
I think you could go with more sawdust. Sprinkle some down then brush out walking paths through the machinery. This should make the sawdust accumulate under the machinery and benches just like in real life.

vietnamseabee
November 2018
Mitch… I’m enjoying following along your build…I hope to build this kit one day and you’ve provided some great guideposts to help me along
Terry

KKarns
November 2018
Great modeling Mitch, love the board ends and timbers on the side of the dock (5th pic from bottom) and the workbench and associated details!

MitchN
November 2018
Some small progress.

Here are the sorting platform lumber stacks.

The kit calls for large piles of saw dust inside the old mill and outside. I was worried about gluing down the large pile of saw dust so I made a base I could paint and not have to use so much glue to keep the whole pile together.

Maybe it is premature to post these pictures until I see the results but, in theory, it should work.

Thanks for looking.

KKarns
November 2018
Stacked lumber looks great and the carved saw dust pile bases is a super idea!

brownbr
November 2018
That’s going to be a big pile of sawdust.

KCSTrains
November 2018
I really like the idea and I’m sure it will turn out great. Can’t wait to see it. Phil

Dave_S
November 2018
Mitch,

Nothing ventured = nothing gained. Win, lose or draw we will all learn from your experiment. Where would civilization be if we didn’t have tinkerers and risk takers.

Later, Dave S. Tucson, AZ

Bill
November 2018
Your fresh cut lumber looks outstanding! Color variations here and there with suggestions of a little heartwood and sapwood. Well done!

Your sawdust piles will work just fine. Perhaps paint the green foam with a sawdust colored craft paint and immediately sprinkle on fine sawdust. Once everything dries, re-evaluate and (most likely) add additional layers of sawdust. Secure it with a 50/50 white glue and water mix. Keep going until the seams and voids from the foam substructure are no longer obvious.

MitchN
November 2018
Most of the roofs I have seen on these models are an orange brown rust and I decided to go for something a little different. This was my inspiration.

I felt all of those stripes on this roof would not work. I went for a relatively new roof just starting to rust. Here are my results. The roof will be completed when the loft is connected to the old sawmill.

I would like to thank Bill for his encouragement for me to go in this direction. Its not the worst roof you have ever seen. I hope.

Thanks for looking.

Robert.G
November 2018
Not at all, it looks mighty fine to me !

CarlLaskey
November 2018
Mitch. Great looking roof gives it some contrast to the overall mill. …Carl…

MitchN
November 2018
The corrugated roof is finished.

I realize its finish is not everyone’s “cup of tea” but it is what I was after.

By the way here is the saw dust shed. If you did not know it saw dust absolutely repels water. I coated the styrofoam with glue and sprinkled on the saw dust. Then I sprinkled more saw dust on top of that.

The two main buildings are glued down now and I will start scenicking the perimeter. I still need to saw the logs and finish the pond bottom.

Thanks for looking.

brownbr
November 2018
That roof was quite a project. It looks realistic and you are the one that has to be happy with it. I think it was a job well done. Will there be a flashing added between the corrugated and battens? Or is the currugated the flashing?

KKarns
November 2018
I agree with Bryan but of course not “grungy” enough for my taste!lol.

Saw dust pile turned out great!

Karl.A
November 2018
Roof looks good Mitch, I too rarely do a fully rusted out roof. Yours looks naturally just starting to show its age.
The sawdust pile came out great, a very natural looking shape and finish overall.

Karl.A

CarlLaskey
November 2018
Mitch. A real nice look on the roof. ..Carl…

Robert.G
November 2018
The sawdust is very well succeeded..

admin
December 2018
Love the roof, extremely well done. Sawdust pile looks wonderful as well!

MitchN
December 2018
I appreciate the positive comments Robert, Carl, Ken, Karl and Brett. Keeps me motivated and not second guessing myself as much.

Thank you for the question Bryan.As you can see in the pictures the corrugated is formed into the valley that kind of makes it the flashing.

I built up everything as far as I could to push the old roof and the new roof together last. If I did not like how the two roofs coming together looked I thought I could cut off the battens above the new roof line and complete the corrugated portion on top of the flat wooden roof that would be left. Once I started the assembly you see in the pictures I felt it looked okay. I would hate to try to add tar along the edge of the corrugated on top of the battens. I think it would be a negative sore thumb where, in the current roof, the connection between the two roofs just merits a glance and the eye moves on

CarlLaskey
December 2018
Mitch here is my roof. …Carl

I hope this helps.

MitchN
December 2018
Thanks for the pictures of the roofs Carl. Yours look great. It looks like you connected the corrugated to the batten roof the same way I did.

I believe you colored your wood with paint stains and I colored mine with ink but, I would say, the results are very similar. I would not have the patience to stain all the wood that went into this kit with the newer pastel method. Not that it could not be done but it would be a lot of work.

MitchN
December 2018
A little more done. The sawdust conveyor is installed. The slab bin will be placed along side the conveyor next.

Thanks for looking.

Robert.G
December 2018
No, we thank you for posting this beauty…

brownbr
December 2018
Sawdust and oil…a fire waiting to happen. Hope none of your workers light up nearby.

admin
December 2018
How true Bryan! Wonderful modeling Mitch. Truly enjoying this build thread. I appreciate your modeling skills and willingness to share. Thanks!

MitchN
December 2018
Thanks for the encouragement Robert, Bryan and Brett.

I am not there yet but I have a question about coloring the pond epoxy. I have two unopened bottles of Pollyscale Empire Green to color the pond with. I do not know if it twice as much as I need or half as much as I need. Can anyone offer a reference from their own experience as to the amount of color to add to each layer poured. I realize that I should use less as the pond rises but how much to start with? Two teaspoons per 8 ounces? One?
I left all the structures that reside in the pond loose so I could paint the epoxy on them at around 7/8 inch height to try to avoid the dreaded wicking (meniscus) that comes with the epoxy. I will also try to paint the bank at the same height. I assume I can paint this on clear and it will just blend in with the colored water?

brownbr
December 2018
Very little paint goes a long way in coloring epoxy. You are going to pour in layers and each layer should get progressively tranparent. I don’t have an exact formula but others here might have a formula that has worked for them.

KKarns
December 2018
Sawdust pile and conveyor turned out really nice. Like how you integrated the conveyor into the pile, very natural looking.

mikemettelka
December 2018
Looks great!

KCSTrains
December 2018
This is really looking good. I especially like the second picture, as pointed out by Ken. Very realistic. As for the resin - I have always been taught that you paint the surface below the resin as you want it and don’t color the resin. It will take on the color of the surface. Just a thought. You may want to experiment on a piece of foam. Phil

admin
December 2018
Mitch, give me a call if you like and we can talk about pond.

MitchN
December 2018
Thank you for the comments Bryan, Ken, Mike and Phil.

Brett, I will take you up on your offer. I have never seen an epoxy pond in person, only in pictures, so I want to get off on the right foot.

Here is the slab bin installed. Nothing in it yet so that is why I have the ground level shots.

Thanks for looking.

Karl.A
December 2018
Fantastic construction and colouring as usual Mitch, you have all these components looking so good, this is going to be another amazing build as a whole.
Thanks for sharing and showing us all this great work as it grows.

Karl.A

CarlLaskey
December 2018
Mitch. It looks better every time I see it good job. …Carl…

MitchN
December 2018
Thanks for the comments Karl, Carl and Ed.

I was wondering if it was a waste of time shading the bottom of the pond to make it look deeper in the center because it will be covered with a 7/8 inch layer of epoxy? Do you think this is adequate or it really doesn’t matter?

The tip of the stick is at 7/8 inch which should be the height of the epoxy.

A little aside is the log dump area. The board next to the ramp will be covered with bark and dirt when it is installed.

Thanks for looking.

brownbr
December 2018
I say do it. It’s like painting the other side of the fence. If you find that you notice it, it was worth it.

Karl.A
January 2019
I agree with Bryan completely.
If you don’t do it and it shows up afterwards theres nothing you can do about it easily.
If you do do it and it gets lost in the epoxy there no loss except for a little time.
I believe however when you do it and look at it later it will give you depth.

Karl.A

MitchN
January 2019
Finishing up the transfer table area. I built this tiny “trestle” to hold the little lumber cars that get transferred to this section.

The cars with lumber have to be added along with stray boards, junk, etc. so there is still much to be done on this side of the sawmill.

Thanks for looking.

CarlLaskey
January 2019
Mitch. Real nice work I like the trestle makes a nice area. …Carl…

vietnamseabee
January 2019
A great piece of work
Terry

KKarns
January 2019
Nicely done Mitch, the scenic work is looking great as well.

admin
January 2019
Excellent!

KCSTrains
January 2019
Mitch, I bet you can see the light at the end of the tunnel (and no, it’s not a train coming at you). The sawmill is a behemoth undertaking and you have handled it with skill and determination. I really like how you are approaching it. Everything looks well coordinated. Phil

Robert.G
January 2019
That was a GREAT idea and well executed.

brownbr
January 2019
I love the transfer. Wish I had space for something like that.

sulaw89
February 2019 edited February 2019
Hey Mitch, Just beautiful work.
I worked in lumber mills as a kid. We had log ponds where you would often see log scalers doing their job. Trucks would bring in wood for different logging sites, scale, then dump in the pond. It was not uncommon to see different types of logs floating in the ponds. Next stop the barkers. During and after milling the lumber woods were sorted to type and grade. You could see Doug Fir, Noble, Spruce, and Hemlock in the larger mills. Small mills might have some select hardwood stacks too.
Most ponds are gone today but you can still see logs piled high with water being sprayed on them.

MitchN
February 2019
Thanks for the encouragement Carl,Terry, Ken, Brett, Phil, Robert and Bryan. Sulaw, what does a log scaler do? I thought a machine debarked the logs? What does a barker do? And thanks for the encouragement too.

I have taken my good old time building this kit trying not to rush anything. I have put off pouring the pond long enough and its time to get serious about it. I spoke to Brett and he gave me advice on how to proceed. I will be coloring the pond with Poly GN empire green. I will post my experiences, good or bad I suppose (hopefully acceptable). I will do some experimental pours in containers first trying to ascertain the right color amount and get used to working with the envirotex.

I have the logs raised to what I think is the right height so they are not too high out of the water (half above or less). I will try to add a bit of moss or algae to the logs to help them look more realistic. Enough about what I am going to do. Time to get to work.

CarlLaskey
February 2019
Mitch I sent you a PM.

Jerry
February 2019
That’s a fine looking roof! Sawdust is really natural looking.
A great build thanks for sharing your ideas!!

Jerry

MitchN
February 2019
Thanks for the comments Jerry.

I have experimented with the Envirotex lite used to make the pond and I would to share some of my experiences with you. Those of you that have worked with this material before will probably think this is overkill but I think it is good information to share with anyone making the sawmill pond.

I would like to recognize Carl Laskey for personally reaching out to me on this subject. He gave me good advice and shared some of his scenery materials to use on the pond and the area around it. Many thanks Carl! I will return what I do not use.

I purchased some 9 X 13 aluminum pans to pour the resin into for my experiments. I used Sculptamold inside the pan to duplicate the material I have around my sawmill pond. I also painted it with my dirt paint. I painted the bottom, quickly, just to give me an idea of how much of the painted bottom would show through.

I won’t bother showing you the other experiments but I will show you the last one. According the the envirotex instructions you should keep the pour at 1/8 inch depth at a time. If you do the math you end up with an 8 ounce pour for a 9 X 13 pan.

You measure the resin and the hardener out in 4 liquid ounce amounts and stir them for two minutes in a flat bottom container with a flat stick so you reach all the crevices you can and get everything mixed up. As you stir this stuff up little bubbles float out like soap bubbles. Not to worry. The material also has minimal odor. From Brett’s instructions, the 8 ounce pour requires 1/8 of a 1/4 ounce of color. I used Pollyscale GN Empire Green. It is actually a hair less but it translates to 1 ml from an eye dropper for me. That is what I used. Stir for another minute and pour. It is very liquid at this point. That is a cant in the middle of the pan under the resin. It gives me an idea how much the resin covers up the bottom.

I neglected to mention that I painted the side walls of the sculptamold to prevent the miniscus or “wicking” that occurs as the resin hardens. It likes to climb the banks as it sticks better to other objects than it does to itself.

As you can see in this picture it really did not make any difference.

The wicking might look significant in this photo but it is not. That black line in the center of the picture marked where the prepainted resin line was at and the envirotex did not creep up the bank any farther than than that without the prepainting.

The other thing I was curious about was how much wicking would occur on the wood structures that reside in the pond. So I planted some pieces of wood in the pan and made my pour. You can see how little the wicking effect had on these pieces. The resin is flat and the reflection of the wall behind the posts makes the resin look a little rough in the picture.

I think this picture shows it a little better. There is some creep on the wood but it is minimal and acceptable to me.

When I start pouring the real pond I will decrease the color in each batch until the last pour is clear.

I have to seal the ends of the entrance and exit creeks, plant my logs and install the structures that go in the pond. Then I will make my first serious pour.

Thanks for looking!

Mountaingoat
February 2019
Thanks for the results of the experiment. Great information for the rest of us.

Rick

brownbr
February 2019
Glad its working out. I think that will make a fine looking pond

Dave_S
February 2019
Mitch,

This has been developing into a contest winner if I ever saw one. I especially find your transfer table fascinating. Great tutorial on using Envirotex to make your pond. Can’t wait for additional photos of these features in the completed diorama.

Later, Dave S. Tucson, AZ

KCSTrains
February 2019
Mitch, thanks for the information. Very useful. Are you satisfied with the final color? Phil

Wes
February 2019
Cant wait to sdee your pour of the pond. The experiment seems to have been a success.

Karl.A
February 2019
Fantastic information and experimentation, thanks for sharing all of that with us. I’m sure your work will benefit more than a few of the readers.

Karl.A

MitchN
February 2019
I would like to thank everyone for their comments.

There are a couple of other things I want to point out about the envirotex. When I painted the shore I did not mention that I painted it with the envirotex to keep it from creeping up the bank. It did not make any difference as the envirotex, for me, did not creep up the bank where it was not painted.

Once the envirotex is poured it releases tiny bubbles as it cures. It looks like soda bubbling but about 1/100 the size of the bubbles. I did not need to eliminate those bubbles with carbon dioxide from my breath. The little log in the center of my pour did however have small bubbles popping out from underneath it. Those bubbles had to be dealt with. As they appeared I exhaled on them to make them pop. They continued for quite a while. I started exhaling through a straw to concentrate the carbon dioxide. If you use the straw be careful not to send any saliva down the pipe. Apparently, some people use a butane torch or a butane grille lighter to do the same thing as my breath.

My envirotex was liquid for quite a while. From other’s experiences I thought I was in a race to get the bubbles taken care of and material spread out before it hardened up. Not the case for me. I am pouring in a cool basement and I did not warm up the envirotex as the instructions suggested. Maybe that is why it was slower to harden. I am just passing on my experience. I do not know if that is the reason or not. I like the results as far as the clarity and hardness.

Phil, I really don’t know what the color should be. I think my color looks like Bill and Mike’s ponds which are greener than Carl’s pond. I have never seen one of these ponds in person. My wife thinks it should be greyer like our Maumee River. Bill used this same color and won a contest with it so it must have something going for it. But then again so did Carl and Mike with their mixes.

With 1/8 pours and a goal of 7/8 inch total height my plan will be to reduce the amount of color from 1 ml per 8 ounces on he first pour to 3/4 ml on the second pour 1/2 ml on the third pour, etc. I will probably have to double up on the reduced paint pours until the last pour or two is clear.

I know this is long winded but I want any of you that anticipate building the sawmill to benefit from my experiences whether they be good or bad.

Karl.A
February 2019
One thing that has occurred to me is that water is not static, it moves up and down with waves, ripples and turbulence. I would imagine in a log pond with all those logs being dumped into the water and the little bobber boat moving around maneouvering them the surface would certainly not be calm.
Therefor the piles, the banks and anything else protruding the surface would be wet above the water line due to ebb/flow, splashing… this is why I have not really worried about a small amount of ‘creep’… it’s actually how it really is. My thoughts.

Karl.A

CarlLaskey
February 2019
That is my thought’s also Karl.

KKarns
February 2019
Great little tutorial on a touchy subject Mitch. Appreciate your work here and look forward to your final pour!

MitchN
March 2019
I think I am ready for the first pour.

The stumps and the logs outside the banks are just lying there are not a permanent part of the scenery. Some of the log supports in the pond still need to be painted.

Thanks for looking.

KKarns
March 2019
Looking mighty fine Mitch! You really nailed the feel of a backwoods sawmill. Anxious to see how the pour works out…steady as she goes! Just beautiful work.

admin
March 2019
Excellent! Looks like you’re all set for the water.

CarlLaskey
March 2019
Mitch. when do you intend to start? Have a good time keeper and enjoy yourself. Carl

brownbr
March 2019
Logs look just right. On with the pour.

Karl.A
March 2019
Exciting times Mitch, everything has come along beautifully, a spectacular job.

Karl.A

MitchN
March 2019
Two pours into the pond. Making 32 ounce pours with the first pour colored with GN empire green at 1 ml per 8 ounces. The second is .75 ml at 8 ounces. The next will be at .5 per 8 ounces.

I covered everything with tape to keep the drips off of the logs and structures. If I decide to get the logs wet I can use a gloss medium for that.

I like the color of the pond with this paint. There are a lot of tape reflections and some of the sunken wood along the shoreline look like shiney lumps until the water gets deeper. I may be jinxing myself but this has not been as difficult as I thought it would. The bubbles have been minimal and I have had plenty of time to work with the resin without it hardening.

Many pours to go, as you can see, to get half way up the logs.

Thanks for looking.

sdrees
March 2019
Hi Mitch,

I went thru the same thing when I did some water. It wasn’t as difficult as I thought either.

CarlLaskey
March 2019
Looking good Mitch now just enjoy all of your work. …Carl…

KKarns
March 2019
Looking good Mitch!..I like the yucky color and your distribution of the debris.

kebmo
March 2019
the color looks perfect to me. lots of “tannin” in the water as it seems it should be.

KCSTrains
March 2019
Mitch, this is really going to bring your whole build together. I like your methodology of preparing for the pour and the pour itself. A great reference for my future build. Thanks for providing the details. Phil

vietnamseabee
March 2019
Mitch…I have Twin Mills on order from Brett and am trying to determine how it will fit into a layout…what is the total footprint size required?
Terry

CarlLaskey
March 2019
Terry. When I built the Mill I made the base 46 in by 46 in that way it will fit in a suburban. The bigger the pond and smaller logs I think looks best that is a big mill so it would require a large pond, I hope this helps.
My Mill is in the finished builds on this forum.
just Saying, …Carl…

PS I also added the wood cutter’s shack in with the mill.

vietnamseabee
March 2019
Thanks Carl…good thought on the wood cutters shack as I have that one as well…once again good info from the members hanging out here
Terry

MitchN
March 2019
Thank you all for the encouragement.

I am five pours in and so far so good. I am close to if not on the final pour which will be clear. That’s when all the floating debris is sprinkled on top of the pond to try to make it more realistic. That will have to wait for the weekend when I have more time to devote to it.

Terry, I am on the same page as Carl with my dimensions of 48 inches wide by 46 inches deep. I have a curved track running around the outside of the pond which you will see some day when I finish the scenery outside the pond.

My pond is roughly 27 inches wide by 20 inches deep.

The old mill building is 14 inches deep from the pond to the sorting platform.

The new mill is 16 inches deep from the front platform to the drying shed.

The complex is 32 inches wide from the sawdust burner sawdust pile to the unloading track.

I recommend anyone building the sawmill to look at Carl’s mill. It was an award winner.

Dave_S
March 2019
Mitch,

Great “see it”, “say it”, “do it” tutorial for all who hope to model water on a diorama or layout.

Later, Dave S. Tucson, AZ

MitchN
March 2019
Here is the almost finished pond. I will try to add some ripples indicating water flow from left to right with some gloss medium. I will experiment on some of the practice pond pours first. If they do not work I will go without.

First a look at the reason I taped everything before I poured.

On to the pond. Where debris is collecting are areas where the current is not strong enough to move the debris downstream.

The pond is difficult to photograph for me because of the reflections from the ceiling off the pond. I hope they do not detract too much from the pond. It has been a fun project to work on. Much more fun than any roof!

Thanks for looking.

vietnamseabee
March 2019
Simply amazing!!!
Terry

CarlLaskey
March 2019
Nice jor Mitch. …Carl…

MarkG
March 2019
Very nice work Mitch. A lot of really nice touches.

Mark

brownbr
April 2019
Looking good. The debris around the water’s edge adds to the realism.

KCSTrains
April 2019
Great work and a great reference for anyone working on the mill. Thanks for posting such detail. Phil

sdrees
April 2019
Hey Mitch, after all the procrastination, what a terrific job!

mikemettelka
April 2019
Nice!

Robert.G
April 2019
VERY nice I might say.

KKarns
April 2019
A successful final pour…whew!..well done and love all the debris along the edges etc…

Dave_S
April 2019
Mitch,

Really like the ability to get a glimpse the logs and such that have sunken to the murky bottom, Very realistic. Great tutorial. Onward!!!

Later, Dave S. Tucson, AZ

MitchN
May 2019
Moving toward the finish line, slowly. I present the log unloader.

I see I need to fill in some dirt underneath the beams.

Please ignore the giant’s hand in the corner.

Thanks for looking.

Robert.G
May 2019
Fantastic scenes Mitch. The fresh cut planks are a very good idea

CarlLaskey
May 2019
Looks good Mitch.

brownbr
May 2019
Looking great.

KKarns
May 2019
Fantastic Mitch, your scenic work is wonderfully done. Though I’d love to give you a free pass just for working this great kit up…however, we are still going to scrutinize your work carefully however!lol. So far…wonderful…

vietnamseabee
May 2019
Spectacular, Mitch

Terry

admin
May 2019
Fantastic work Mitch!

MitchN
July 2019
There are little lumber cars included with the sawmill kit. These were completed with Carl Laskey’s help.

There are many details to add around the mill and scenery to finish. Almost done.

Thanks for looking.

Robert.G
July 2019
This loading area is very well done Mitch !!

Wes
July 2019
WOW. What a scene.

Ed mentioned Calvin and Hobbes. Ill say Peanut butter and jam (jelly) for you US folks.

kebmo
July 2019 edited July 2019
calvin and hobbes? SMDH…

that scene alone is worth the price of admission. holy cow does that look fantastic? awesome work (and i’m sure its a lot of work).
just amazing.

brownbr
July 2019
Looks great.

Jerry
July 2019
Very nice indeed!

Jerry

Joel
July 2019
Great little scene. Nicely done. Hard to capture that look of freshly cut wood and you nailed it.

MitchN
July 2019
I would like to thank everyone for the positive comments. It keeps me going.

Joel- I used a Rembrandt pastel gold ochre 231.3 to highlight the wood pieces. Scrap a little off on the glass you are working on, dip a brush in clear alcohol and make a stain out of the two ingredients. Brush it on to create the effect. A heavy dot looks like a knot. Easy.

Thanks for looking.

MitchN
July 2019
Ed—I think it means smacking my darn head, to clean it up a little.

kebmo
July 2019
SMDH (Shake My Dam* Head)

Bill
July 2019
Terrific work, Mitch! I especially like the look of your fresh lumber on the platform and stacked on the buggies. Those little punctuations of color will make your model stand out from others—ones where the stripwood is left in its natural color: too white and unnatural.
Well done all around!

MitchN
July 2019
Bill- Always appreciate your critical eye when you look at my work.

I am just following your example on the staining of the freshly cut wood.

MitchN
July 2019
A little more detailing done.

Posting final all around the model shots soon.

Thanks for loooking.

kebmo
July 2019
excellent, museum quality modeling, awesome.

Wes
July 2019
Faultless in my opinion. Cant wait to see more.

Robert.G
July 2019
Mitch, the more you show us, the more I love it. Such a fantastic diorama you’ve build. Thanks for letting us enjoy this beauty.

kebmo
July 2019
its the best log pond water modeling i’ve ever seen, not to mention the structures themselves and the surrounding detail/terrain. Excellence at its best!

MitchN
July 2019
I am wrapping this model up although I am sure the scene will be tinkered with over time. It has been a fun build and it does not really take as long as it seemed to. I had a heart attack and a job change while I was building this model and my interest waned at times. My priorities changed. The pond really scared me but it was not bad at all. That is why I detailed my pond work to relieve any fears any future builders might have. If they look it up.

If you have this kit build it. You will put your stamp on it and people who see it will be amazed you built it. Anyone one who has seen the water is amazed by it.

It really is a four sided model with plenty of detail as we have come to expect from SierraWest models.

Another thank you to Carl Laskey for his encouragement, advice and sharing some of his materials. They all combined to make this a better model.

Thanks for looking.

kebmo
July 2019
what a stunning diorama! honest, it’s one of the very finest i’ve ever seen. bravo sir!

sdrees
July 2019
the diorama is just fantastic Mitch!!!

Robert.G
July 2019 edited July 2019
What a superb achievement. So well done in every way. I hope your health is ok now.

Dave_S
July 2019
Mitch,

Incredibly well done. I didn’t know for certain how the finished boards were going to be moved from the transfer tracks until I saw the last photo above.

Certainly a primer and template for all of us who still have the kit on the shelf.

Later, Dave S. Tucson, AZ

admin
July 2019
Outstanding job Mitch. So well done. Everything is convincing and natural. Hall of Fame worthy for sure!

CarlLaskey
July 2019
Mitch. Thank You for the kind words everything turned out so good.
Take care of yourself. …Carl…

July 2019 73.195.204.248
Mitch glad your health is looking up.
A beautiful model for sure.

Jerry

Bill
July 2019
Great work, Mitch…this is one you’ll be proud of for years! You posted a simple but great piece of advice that I hope everybody saw:
“If you have this kit build it.”

This is a special kit that’s meant to be built. Don’t let it sit on your shelf any longer. Do it!
No matter where you’re at as a modeler, you can’t help but gain more confidence and learn new skills by seeing this model through to completion. The process is just as impressive and valuable as the final result. Anyone who has built it knows what I mean.

Again, we’ll done Mitch!
Display it often and encourage the next builders who take the leap!

Wes
July 2019
Congrats Mitch

These kits deserved to be built. And your rendition is a mighty fine one.

sdrees
July 2019
Some amazing pictures of some fantastic work Mitch!!!

KKarns
July 2019
Mitch…what the heck! what a fabulous diorama you put up here. I admire you/it not only for seeing the project through but your attention to detail from start to finish. This has to be the priemier SWSM kit both in breadth and design. You did it justice that is for sure…well done!

brownbr
July 2019
A masterpiece

kebmo
July 2019
it certainly is!

Lynn_Boyd
July 2019
Absolutely fantastic workmanship.

[JimM]

Incredibly well done project. Congratulations.

[Crystalcreek8]

Thanks Jim. I know there are other HO sawmill builds on the old site which have won national awards. Mine is part of a layout which is not leaving the basement. When I built mine I tried to make my information available with someone in mind that was unsure how to proceed like I was. Thanks again for your help.

Mitch Niemiec